Dynamics Of New Testament Community - Tyler Behel

Spiritual family is foundational for everything in the kingdom; it is a close community where people share and grow in a messy, imperfect environment. This type of New Testament community is a place where spiritual fathers and mothers can impart truth, give guidance, and speak encouragement.​

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Full transcript generated by ai (please excuse errors):


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​All right, good afternoon that everybody liked lunch. Good. Awesome. Yeah, Marina and I had that last week in an event and it was it was incredible. So we thought we needed to do that again. Okay, so. So when we do the schools of spiritual leadership, nobody that speaking ever coordinates anything, before we actually go in. So we give each other a other than a theme. That's what I was gonna say. So we give each other like a very loose theme. And there's no like, directed, hey, you're gonna talk about this, you're gonna talk about this, or, Hey, I'm gonna share my notes with you. And so there may be a little bit of overlap with what Pastor rod said, there may be a little bit of overlap with what Jen said. But you know, I think some of those things, sort of like when things happen in Scripture, multiple times, if things come up multiple times through through multiple sources, we call that dual phenomenology in the military, that means, you know, might be something you want to pay attention to. So, so yeah, so this theme of the School of spiritual leadership, that we pick this this theme of spiritual family, because I believe this is foundational for everything that you ever do in the kingdom. It's foundational for everything that you do in the kingdom. So growing up in churches, I, the idea of spiritual family, or church family, to me was always synonymous with the church you attended. That's what I thought it was. And, and not that there's anything wrong with that. But I didn't really understand that there was a depth pass just the people that you see at church every Sunday, you know, I just felt like that was just the the place you you were called to the building to go to and the people that were in it, but when you look at what spiritual family actually meant, Pastor rod said it real well, he's talking about these close spiritual communities where people share everything in common and where you can grow, you know, we're where things are a little bit messy, and things don't always look super polished. It's, it's a family is exactly what it is. So I want to briefly look at x two, and verses 42 through 47. And we'll go through a little bit of what spiritual family actually looks like. And if everybody give everybody just a second to get their x two, and that's going to be 42, through 47.

All right, and it says, And they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching, and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers, and all came upon every soul. So that many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles, and all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and their belongings and distributing the proceeds to all in any who had need. And day by day, attending the temple together, and breaking bread in their homes. They received their food and with glad and generous hearts, praising God for for having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day, those who were being saved. So when we look at these verses, it doesn't just look like folks going to church on Sundays. It doesn't look like it. This was a community. These people were spending day in and day out together. They were sharing everything in common. They were taking care of each other's needs. They were raising each other's children together, you know, they were in a close spiritual community. It says the apostolic teaching and the fellowship and the breaking of bread was the central focus of their meetings. They focus their meetings around a meal, because meals are highly relational. When we sit and we eat with people, and we talk with people, that's where you get to know people, you know, and that's the way they focus their worship meetings. And those activities, produce the environment that enable the draw the signs and wonders, the generosity, and it produced the unity that they had as a body. So the context of all of these things occurring was spiritual family. And, and there's a reason for that. So have you ever noticed that people always have a desire to belong somewhere? Everybody does. You look at it and people divide themselves up by tribes, they divide themselves up by teams, they want to have some sort of an affiliation. You know, um, I see this with the kids a lot. You know, if they don't feel like they're belonging somewhere, they start to feel sad, you know, if they feel like they're not having the friendship connections, they'll start to feel sad. And on the other side, we see like how this works within the siblings. So Esther right now being the baby, she'll watch every single thing that Emma and Emma and Ezra do. And she will mimic it, she'll do it to a tee, she'll say the exact same thing, she'll move the same way that they do. And the whole time that she's doing it, she's looking at them for approval, she looks at him, she's like, Okay, I'm one of them, you know, I'm part of this. So. So she's looking back and forth, to see it to show herself that she's involved in the relationship with them. And she's involved in whatever they're involved in, and it makes her feel good, it makes her feel special, it makes her feel part of the group, part of the family. And that's what we see. And the reason that we do is because we're creating the image of God, I think, Rod, you said this earlier, we're created in the image of God. So all of these different qualities that we have these kind of instincts, so to speak, that we that we have in our being is because we've got that imprinted on us from the one that created us, because He created us in His image. And that goes back to that whole concept. And Genesis one and two, were God created man, and he said, let's create man in our image, and, and then give him dominion. And then after that, in Genesis two, it said, It's not good for man to be alone, I'll make him a helper fit for him in the context of that was marriage. You know, we discussed this earlier. And the natural progression of marriage is family. The natural progression of families is a family of families in a community, you know, and we were supposed to live that in spiritual family with God in the Garden of Eden. And that was supposed to be our existence, it was a family environment where we were supposed to spend it with our father sharing the things that he had made. And that was the way we're created. So we don't live in the garden anymore. But we still have the same desires, because that's what we're created for. And that's kind of where I'm going with this is that we're not living like that, you know, we have a hard time and then we have this longing and craving for that sort of family.

And that's why we have this desire. So what are family supposed to look like? It's not rhetorical, you know, what is what is a family? What does the family look like?

Mother and father, children. Okay, mother, father, children, grandparents. And, and, and what are those, you know, I mean, those are people that that you share life with, you share everything with, they raise you, and then you honor them. So when fathers and mothers raise their children, according to the will, and the purpose of God, it's very powerful. When children honor their parents, it's very powerful. You know, when siblings love and care for each other, and lift each other up and protect one another, it's a powerful thing. That's what, that's what families were created to do. And, and that's the picture of what we're supposed to have spiritually as well. Like, anything that occurs in the natural is really just a shadow and a picture of what's what's occurring spiritually, on the other side of things. So, so if you have these natural families, and they look that way, and that's the way they're supposed to look, then maybe spiritual family should look the same way. Because that's exactly what it is. All the things that we have here are kind of a shadow of the things that exist eternally. And so you kind of see this with Jesus in Matthew 12. Whenever he's, he's asked, you know, Hey, your, your mom's here, your brothers are here. Let's go look at him. Let's go, let's go visit with him. And then Jesus uses this, this, this kind of picture of his natural family to describe His spiritual family. And he says, while he was speaking to the people, the whole his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. But he replied, to the man who told him who was my mother, and who were my brothers, and stretching out his hand toward his disciples. He said, Here, my mother and my brothers, for whoever does the will, and my father in heaven as my brother or sister. So Jesus was not denying his mother and his brothers when he said that what he was trying to do is he was trying to paint a picture for them, and say, hey, yeah, they're my mother, my brothers, and they're important. But these people are also my family. They're also my spiritual family. So me being here and staying with him and imparting to them is just as important as the natural family. He was equating the two together almost, and in Jesus said that we need to pay attention to it too. So with spiritual families, they do a few different things. So they raise and they steward spiritual children, and they support one another, and the greater body of Christ, and then they conduct the family business of God. So for today, I'm going to touch on on the first of these functions of raising spiritual children. So when Jesus great gave the Great Commission What did he tell us to do? To go and do what? Not exactly. Make disciples. He said, go make disciples of all the nations. And, and, and there's something to that, that we really need to pay attention to. Because he didn't say go make converts of all the nations he didn't. So he didn't say go and baptize all the nations he did that was part of it. But the main crux of it was go make disciples of all the nations. So when we look at disciple, you know, what is that? What is a disciple? Yeah, a student, but more than a student, like it's more than that, that it's more than a student teacher relationship, it's not something that you can get in, in church, if you have like a nine week discipleship track course, you know, it's a, it's something different, it's something different. So, um, so when I think of it, you know, like it does anyone here garden, you know, like, this is our, this is Marina, Marina, and it is our first year in Alabama. And we were trying to, we were trying to garden and, and it was like, an 80% failure. It was an 80% failure. So, so we had tomatoes, we had peppers, we had watermelons, and then we had some herbs. And it was pretty much a failure. And a lot of it was because, one because I didn't really know what I was doing. I figured, you know, with a decent climate where it rains and deep soil, everything was just gonna grow, you know, you put it in the ground is going to do its thing. And Jen can tell you cuz she and Ian are really good at this. And then I run Sylvia are really good at this too. I went and saw their tomatoes, do these plants are taller than me, I don't I don't get it. Mine did my may like five tomatoes, and they'll get eaten by worms. Do other part of it, though is I didn't I didn't know what I was doing to steward the ground, right? to steward the garden, right. You can't just plant a seed and then expect it to do its thing. It takes cultivation. And that's what discipleship is to. There's this there's this idea of cultivation, you have to understand the type of soil you're working with and provide the right nutrients for it, you have to understand the plants that you're working with, and what requirements they have, and then provide those needs. You can't do that unless you're out there physically spending time with plants, and then doing some research and figure out what in the world they need to thrive. Discipleship is kind of the same way. It's not something that's a one size fit all kind of process, where you can go and show up, and then have a teaching on it like we're doing now and expect this to be discipleship. It's not this is a starting point. This is a starting point to give you some things to look into. But the real discipleship starts after this. When we go back, and we spend time together over the next months, weeks years, and we can see, you know, like, hey, we can grow in this area, you've got this and I don't, we can cross pollinate. And then we can we can make the garden grow. That's what we talked about spiritual greenhouses a lot. And that's really what it is. It's a it's a place where you can grow in the things that you need to grow in. And it's a place where you can have pruning in the places you want to be, you need to be pruned in you know, and that only happens in relationships. It doesn't happen on a class. If you're doing discipleship properly, it looks very similar to parenting. It looks super similar to parenting. So um, so when we read the passage, we tend to read our experience into Scripture and interpret it through a lens of our experience today. But that's not that's not always completely wrong. There's a lot of scripture that's very relevant for today. And I think all of it's relevant for today. But to understand how to apply it for today, a lot of times we need to figure out what it actually meant, right? And this is where I'm going with this whole this whole discipleship thing this morning. So the Bible was written to a mostly Jewish audience, right? It was written by Jews, almost exclusively, maybe exclusively, it depends on what you do with with Luke But but discipleship was a Jewish concept. So in order to understand what that actually means, you kind of need to look at the root of it and see what it is. So there so there's a two people named Martina gray scene and Ervin Buddha Selleck, the road and artists article called discipleship in the context of Judaism in Jesus's time, and they explained that discipleship had three levels. So they had Bates de fer, which means, House of the book, so safer as books as talking about the Torah. And then they had the next is Beit Talmud, which is house of learning and that was like the Oral Torah, the teachings and and things like that they also would include the prophets into it. And then they finally had this had this portion of it called Beit Midrash. And that was where the student would be attached to a rabbi. Usually the rabbi would have students come to him And then they would say, Hey, will you be my rabbi? And let me follow you? And the rabbi would say yes or no. So Jesus flipped that paradigm a little bit. And he went out and he chose people and said, Hey, follow me, hey, follow me, hey, follow me. But that's essentially what it was. So when that person went with the rabbi, they followed that guy everywhere he went and did everything he did, every single day. Every single day, if you watch the chosen, and you see how much the the the disciples are following Jesus around, and going places with him and doing things, that's kind of how that's how that, look, they did a pretty good job, like depicting that on the screen. But that's essentially what it was. They spent all day every day together. And when you do that, you get to see the good, the bad and the ugly, you get to understand how that Rabbi is going to react when something bad happens in their family, and how they respond to it, you're going to be able to see how they react to successes. You know, when you can mimic that you're going to see how they react to people, when people come to them and ask for for for counseling or mentorship, you're going to listen to how they view the scriptures and not only listen to how they view the scriptures, you're going to be able to go back later, and then get the secrets to the kingdom of heaven. Like Jesus said to the disciples, you know, it's for you that I've given the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, it's not for the multitudes. And because that takes relationship that takes time. And that's exactly what what discipleship looked like to the Jews. And if you look at Mark Three, it points this out very well, verses 13 and 14. And it's talking about Jesus. And it said, he went up to the mountain and called the Him those who he desired. And they came to him. And he appointed the 12, whom He also named apostles, so that they might be with him. And he might send them out, to preach and to have authority to cast out demons. So I want you to pay attention to the order. So order, they're super important, he called them to be with him, that he would send them out. You have to spend time with the rabbi in order to be sent out to do these things. And whenever you look at how that actually function, you know, it wasn't just go with the rabbi, and then you're out. It was a constant back and forth of mentorship and guidance and fatherhood, that lasted the entire time, Jesus was there with him. And that's what it needs to look like today. And that time is with Jesus that time is also with our spiritual fathers and mothers here on Earth. So

So when or how that how many people? Could you really do this effectively with? Like, if you had to think and make a guess? How many people could you invest that kind of time in? To do something with them, you know, multiple days a week or two to invest in them deeply? I mean, you could you do it? 12? What's that? Yeah, yeah, say, say you say you were a spiritual father and mother, how many people could you invest with, and that sort of, and that sort of capacity, and do it effectively? Three or four, no, 12 one. Yeah. And see, that's the point. So in the army, the way that we do leadership is no single person is supposed to directly supervise more than five to 10 people, that's about the most you're ever going to get. And even with those with 10 people, you've got team leaders under use of there's two that you're really talking to, and they're they're helping you manage the other ones, they have these different echelons of leadership, that makes sure that your team that you're actually having to be responsible for is fairly small. So you can have an organization of 2000 people that's yours. And you're directly you're directly responsible for for supervising about 10 of them. And that's what the military does for effective leadership. So there's a there's a guy named Neil Cole that wrote a book called church 3.0. It's really awesome. I love the book. But he describes this well. He says when ministering to a group of 500, it requires a significant demand. If you try to engage with as many people as as possible, and you'd make about this much impact, you make about this much impact trying to try and to personally be involved with 500 people. So whenever you want to make maximum impact on people, he says, you can effectively do this with about 12 people to get the most significant impact with the least demand. So that's, that's about the sweet spot wherever you were, or you max out your capacity, and also your ability. And I think that's why Jesus picked 12. And he took this and I know what lined up with what Jesus did with the apostles, but this is this is from like Organizational Leadership, Research, they've come up with that. So you can effectively invest in about 12 people well, so if you're doing that, you know, you can have these large crowds that you're that you're pouring into. But at the same time, you know, if you really want to have an impact if you want to have that multiplication instead of addition Do you need to invest really well and 12 people and then you knew, and you need to empower those people to go out and do the same thing. And you don't stop investing in him, you continue to invest in him. But you empower them to go do the same thing for other people. Because you can't do that. It's impossible. And that's the biggest thing, like when we go down to places like, we're, we're pouring into the churches in Guatemala, we're like, hey, you know, you have to, you have to figure out how to disciple some people well, and empower them to go do it. You know, you can't be the entire fivefold ministry from Ephesians, four by yourself, it's not possible. And you shouldn't try to because then you get to the point where you're reaching burnout, and you're still not being effective. And that's really demoralizing to you. And then you start hurting people, because they're depending on you for things and you're failing them. And so that's why this is a big deal. That's why this is a big deal. You can't get this by going to church once a once a week, either. And I'm encouraging everybody in this room, if that's what you're doing, I don't think anybody is I know, everybody in here, everybody in here is doing is doing this at some capacity or another, you're investing in people. But you know, the people that you're investing in, let them know this too, like you can't get to that point by by just going to church one day a week. And that's the only spiritual feeling that you get, or that you're providing to other people, this needs to be a day to day thing, and you need to have people that, that you give license to, to be apparent to you and, and seek out people that you can be apparent to. So I, this is the piece that I really kind of wanted to focus on today. So I mentioned that Jesus acted as a spiritual father to the to the disciples. And if I did, and I meant to, Jesus was acting as a spiritual father to the disciples, the parent, the spiritual parent is crucial in the role of development of believers. So I'm going to speak a little bit about about fatherhood, just because I'm a father. And that's the context that I'm going to understand the most. But it's applicable to mothers too. It is. But when we look at some of the issues that we've got in society, right now, we've got all sorts of issues with identity, we've got issues with all sorts of confusion of different sorts, we've got issues with rage, we've had issues with people being super passive, where they shouldn't be where they should be empowered to stand up and do things. We've got all these issues with corruption. And most of not all of these things derive from a failure, or an absence of fathers in the lives of these people. And this is happening naturally. But I think it's also happening spiritually, because people are getting about skin deep with their relationships, from their spiritual communities. And really, what they need is somebody that can guide them and lead them and show them the right way to be and the right way to live. And we're seeing this across our society, especially in the United States, you've got men that don't know that they're men and women that don't know that they're women, because their parents have failed to speak their identity to them. Now, I'm very fortunate. And I think it's an amazing thing to be able to honor your your father and mother, that's what the Bible tells us, we should do. My parents did a great job with that. They provide discipline, and they provided love, and they spoke their identity to me, whenever, whenever it was most needed. But there are a lot of people that don't have that, especially from the Father, so So fathers provide direction, encouragement, instruction, and they carry the authority to speak into the lives of their children. And that's unmatched with any other voice in their in their life for most children. You know, some when their fathers are absent, the mothers can pick up on that, and not that mothers don't have the ability to speak identity into their children. But usually when, when things get tough, it's the father's voice that we need to look to you. And I think that's because God has set up the spiritual kingdom that way, the father's voice is powerful. And I see that in my kids, whenever I say things to them, you know, if I were to say something to them about their identity, that wasn't true, it would cut them, it would cut them really deep. And if if Marina said it, I'm not sure if it would have the same impact as if I said it. Just because of the the roles in the household. You know, and it's the same thing whenever with my parents, so say I had a coach, or I had a boss at work, or I had someone that told me, Hey, you're terrible. I don't know why you're here. You're awful Get out of my face. Like you don't need to be here. Or a coach is like, Hey, you're not a very good player, you need to sit the bench, or I start telling myself things like, Hey, I'm a failure, and I can't do it anymore. I don't want to be alive anymore. You know, those sorts of things are things that I've dealt with in my life at various times. And my dad was always there for me to call him and he would speak truth to me when I was in Afghanistan, and I was like, Hey, I don't know if I want to. I don't think I can. I don't think I'm gonna make it. I don't think I can continue mission anymore, dad. He was there to say no, you got this. You can fight through this. This is who you are. And because of that I could hold on and I made it through and then The real identity that I had, you know, through his voice, I could hear God speaking to me and say, Hey, this is who you are in me. You have to live, you have a purpose, you have something better in life. It was that way growing up playing sports to you know, I get knocked down, get my helmet broke, you know, what score the goal, whatever, when I was playing hockey, and he was like, No, this is what you need to do. And the same thing with correction when I was messing up, no one, no one else believed in you and your dad believes in you and tells you, you're good, you're good. That's the kind of role that spiritual fathers need to play as well. Not everybody that biologically produces kids is a father, and not every teacher is a spiritual father. This is a role that has to be assumed. It is a role that has to be assumed it is a mantle that you put on of being a father. So first, First Corinthians 415 says, For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have any fathers, for I became a father to you and Jesus Christ. So so so rod mentioned this earlier in his teaching. Now, like I said, there's going to be a little bleed over and some of the things that we're saying, but Paul was calling himself a spiritual father. He called himself a spiritual father to Timothy to Timothy was his spiritual son. What this means is, Paul was putting Timothy, under his spiritual covering, he was putting Timothy under his spiritual authority, and saying, Hey, you're my son, I'm going to take care of you the way a father takes care of a son, I'm going to raise you and steward you and guide you the way a Father raises a son. Being a spiritual parents that way you love and you care, they love and they care for you. And they provide correction and direction whenever you need it. The role of spiritual child is also assumed, you have to say, Hey, I'm going to be a spiritual child, to the person that wants to be a spiritual father and mother. To me. It's an act of submission, not in a bad way we talk about submission, like it's a terrible thing in our culture, but it's not. It's submitting to authority and saying, Hey, I'm gonna allow you to know, you know, who I am, on a level that most people aren't going to get to know me, and I'm gonna allow you to speak truth to me, I'm gonna allow you to guide me, I'm gonna allow you to build me up and sometimes tell me I'm wrong, you know, that's okay. And we shouldn't get upset about that. That's the dynamic of a family.
So I'm gonna give you two quick illustrations about what I mean. I'm gonna give you some scriptural references. Does anyone here know what a delete is? Does anyone not know what a delete is? You don't know what to lead us. You know what delete is. This is a delete. This is a delete. So what does a prayer Shaw so so so, so Jewish? Are you gonna take a picture? This ain't for Facebook. All you people, all the people that are on the recording, this isn't for Facebook. So I apologize. But I'm wearing it to eat right now to show everybody what it is. So a Jewish man wears this whenever they pray, and it's to symbolize the covering of God. So the Jewish man, the father is the head of the household. And he's being covered by God. So I want you to notice a few things about the Delete. It looks like wings. It's got little feathers on the end of it. This covering from God is it's putting yourself under the the authority and the protection of God. So Jesus really summed this up well, when he said how I Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you have killed the prophets and stone those who sent sent to you how often I have longed to gather your children together as a hand gathers her chicks under her wings. And you were not willing, he said that Matthew 2337. This is the symbol he was referring to. This is the symbol he was referring to when he said that, and it was a picture that they would understand. Because this is the the covering of a father, this is the covering of a rabbi, this is the covering of the husband, the head of the household, that's what it is. So when a Jewish wedding, they have a Hupa diagnosis, he built a Hoopa for from a sister's wedding. They have, they have a Hoopa. And and on top of the Hupa. Many times, they will put the husband's to leet right on top of the Hupa. And they do that because it's a symbol to show that they are consecrating the marriage under the authority of God, and that he's bringing the wife under the covering authority, and, and protection and care of the household of the person that owns the Delete. And that's the symbol of that's the same symbol that Jesus said when he said I want to gather you under my wings, you know, like, like a mother hen gathers chicks. It's a protection thing. So this is the symbol of the household. So we see the same concept in the spiritual union of a father and son, and the union of of Ruth and Boaz. So the first one I'm going to talk about is Elijah and Elijah. So first Kings 1919 says So Elijah went from there and found Alicia the son of Shabbat. He was plowing with 12 yoke of oxen. And he himself was driving the 12 pair. Elijah went up to him and threw his cloak around him. And Elijah then left his ox and ran after Elijah. Let me kiss my father and mother goodbye. And he said, and then I will come with you. Go back, Elijah replied, What have I done to you? So Elijah left him and went back, he took his yoke of oxen and slaughtered them. He burned the plowing equipment to cook the meat, and he gave it to the people and they ate it. And then he set out to follow Elijah and became his servant. Okay, so the, so the word for cloak here is called dar Tov, and it refers to both glory and a wide garment. So you mentioned glory earlier, didn't you? And I couldn't remember the verse and I apologize about that. But what this does is this wide garment, I believe, was a delete. And it also symbolizes the glory or the the covering the mantle of Elijah of the Prophet. So this describes the Delete of Elijah and it would have identified him as a prophet, and throwing his garment over Elijah symbolizes putting Elijah under his care and authority. He was saying, Hey, you're my spiritual son, because you're under the you're under the covering of mightily. And so when Elijah eventually picked up that mantle, he carried with him the authority of Elijah's household, as his spiritual son. And he said that when Elijah was taken away, oh, my father, oh, my father. That's what this is. So Ruth and Boaz. So, so we're going to look at the book of Ruth, chapter three, verses six through 13. And so she went down to the threshing floor, and did justice her mother in law commanded her when Boaz had eaten and drunk, and his heart was Mary, he went to lie down, and at the end of the heap of grain, and then she came and softly uncovered his feet and lay down. At midnight, the man was startled and turned over and behold, a woman lay at his feet. And he said, Who are you? And she answered, I am Ruth, your servant, spread your wings over your servant, for your Redeemer. And he said, may you be blessed by the Lord, My daughter, you have made this last kindness greater than the first and that you have not gone after young men, whether rich or poor. And now my daughter, do not fear I will do for you all that you ask for all my fellow townsmen know that you are worthy woman. And now it is true, that I am a redeemer. Yet there is a redeemer near you than I and remained tonight. And in the morning, if he will redeem you good, let him do it. But if he will, not, willingly, if he's not willing to redeem you, then as the Lord lives, I will redeem you lie down until morning. So the word here that's used for wings, the translation, this translation that I'm reading says wings, but if you read other translations, it says, the corner of his garment, in the Hebrew word is cannot pick up. And it refers to the wings of a bird. It's also used as the wings of a Sarafem, or the wings of a chair of him. And in the Psalms, it's used as protector as well. It's the same symbol. It's the same symbol that Jesus used in Matthew, it's the same symbol of the Delete, that Elijah and Elijah used, because it symbolizes the authority of a household and bringing someone in someone we're so when we're spiritual parents, and we take on spiritual children, we're taking them under our wings, which means we're going to support them, we steward their growth, and we put them under the coverage as a parent would their own child. And as spiritual children, we agree to submit to the spiritual authority of a parent and trust them to love us, and to guide us in the kingdom. This is the model of discipleship that God intended. Both the spiritual parent the spiritual child must assume the role. Notice in the example of Elijah and Elijah, Elijah had to set accept the role as a spiritual son Elijah came up and through the marijuana, but Elijah had to had to choose to go and follow Him and choose to follow him he did. He took everything that he had in his life before. And he burned it. He cooked it he gave it away. And he said, All right, I'm all in. I'm gone. So when it comes to, to the, the choosing of a spiritual parent, we take a look at what happened with with Ruth and Boaz. And Boaz had to be willing to bring Ruth under the care and protection of his household. None of that was a marriage relationship, but it's kind of a similar thing. He had to agree to include her and his family. So it's a mutual mutual submission to one another. The other thing I'd like to point out is that with Elijah and Elijah, before Elijah was taken away, Elijah said Hey, what can I do for you before I leave, and Alicia says, I want to double portion of your spirit. And there was a condition of that when Elijah replied, He said, This is a really difficult thing that you're asking for. In order to do this, you have to stay with me till the end. And that's the other thing about discipleship is a long process. It's a process where you have to be with someone for a long time to do, it's not something that you can do. In a short teaching, it's a lifestyle. It's been in time together, it's, it's learning from one another, it's correcting each other, it's guiding one another. And, and that's kind of the biggest thing I wanted to point out today. As spiritual fathers and mothers, we don't just want to raise kids, we don't just want to raise kids, that's not the goal. The goal of a spiritual father mother is to raise fathers and mothers. That's the same goal as as a natural parent, you know, you don't just want to raise your kids to get them out of the house, you want to raise your kids to be successful in everything they do, and to be good fathers and mothers to their own children. And that's really what we're talking about in the kingdom. That's how you get from the addition math to the to the multiplication Math, where you, you empower people that you're investing in to go invest in other people. And that's what that looks like in the kingdom. That's what the generations look like in the kingdom, the same way that you have children that have grandchildren, and so forth. It's the same sort of thing. And that's kind of the way the Jewish rabbinic tradition will work, you know, the, the disciple would follow the rabbi until they themselves could become a rabbi. And then they would go out and make disciples of their own. So that's really what we're doing here. The father begets a father, the mothers beget a mother. And when we fail to do that, the kids still get older, but they never really grow up mature. So that's kind of where I wanted to leave it. And I want to open it up for sharing if there's anything that anyone wanted to wanted to say or wanted to add.
Okay, so we had a question about, about about a son, a young son, so how do we know if we should choose a spiritual father for our for our young children, or whether that child is capable, or should choose a spiritual father and mother for themselves? So my answer to that is, it has to be a little bit of both. So as a father of a young child of several young children, I'm going to have to be the approval authority for anyone that speaking into my kids, because I want to make sure that I'm protecting them and guarding them, because they're under my, you know, authority and protection as a father. So I don't want someone speaking into my kid that's going to speak something wrong, or baby boom, may be malicious. You know, there has to be some of that. But there also has to be some choice on the kid's part to the kid has to be comfortable, to speak to that grown up or that spiritual, you know, father or mother and to receive from them as well. And it doesn't necessarily have to be someone that that's way older, either a spiritual father or mother, I know when the natural we see, a parent is someone that's way older than us. But in the spirit, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. spiritual maturity doesn't always go along with age, you know, you could have someone that's, that's in their 80s, that's brand new, it's a brand new Christian or that hasn't made, it hasn't attained maturity in the kingdom, that probably wouldn't be a good spiritual father or mother. But you could have someone that's in their, in their 20s, or 30s, that's super mature in their faith, that might be really good, and they can speak into you. So there has to be a little bit of both. And there has to be some discernment on the part of the parents and the child to figure out whether that's a good idea to allow that person to be a father and mother to them.

So kind of the way that I, I think about this is that it's a it's more of an informal thing, when they're a young child, you count on the community to be able to speak into their lives. You have other men that are that you know them, that you trust their judgment, and that you can count on them to speak into the child's life. Primary discipleship is going to be mom and dad until that child is old enough to go further. Okay, so you're, you're the primary disciple, disciple errs, of that child. The community's going to speak into that child's life because they love that child like it's their own. And we'll do what they can to protect that child and be there for them. I think once the child becomes old enough to say, I need I need more than they would seek additional spiritual fathers. Probably and usually, from those guys group that group of men that have already been speaking into their lives. So it's, it's, initially, it's going to be informal, it's going to be part of the community. But as the child grows and is seeking God on their own, they would look for those additional spiritual fathers.

This is a, I think this is a big, big topic, what you're asking. And the as I was, as I was fathering my own natural children, it didn't take long to figure out that there were other men in our spiritual sphere, of relationships of faith, who had things to offer that I didn't have. And so it was really ice me staying invested in not outsourcing the primary discipleship number one, like Doug said, there's a lot of Christian parents that are guilty of that they go, this is a great youth group, and he's a great youth pastor, and they try to outsource discipleship. And I think that's one of the reasons why we're struggling with generational transfer right now. Because we left it to the youth pastors or somebody in the church like that to be their primary disciple errs. And I am a firm believer that it's not the youth pastors job to be the prime disciple of my children. They're there to put the polish on. But we are the primary disciple errs of those children. And, you know, most of the time, we don't really start looking for spiritual fathers and mothers, what we really do is we look for mentors. And we find like, Okay, this, this guy is a good mentor, this gal, she's a, she's a great mentor. And then as the relationship develops, I don't know, for me, I think it was maybe 5% 10% 7%, I'm guessing, I was like, wait a minute, this person is really committed to investing into my life, and they stay committed. And I realized, this is a spiritual father, or this is a spiritual mother. And by the way, you can't try to make somebody something they're not you. They can't give you what they don't have, right. And so you don't try to make someone your spiritual father, a mother. But you see that man, this person's really committed in my life, they're more than that. And I think the same is true with our kids. So we start recognizing, Hey, I recognize in this area, there's an investment going into my teenage sons lives. By this, these guys and men, they love God and they are solid, they are rock solid. And I'm staying connected enough so that I'm not deceived or anything like that. You know what I mean? The first person I really saw do this was my own father, because my dad, and no one here except my wife has had the privilege to meet him. He's with the Lord now. Very gentle soul. But also very humble man had a good grasp of what he had and what he didn't. And because I came to the Lord and man I just went on, I went on steroids, I was pursuing the Lord going hard after God, in my dad was a humble enough man to realize he needed to facilitate or make way for men of God to speak into my life, because he knew that he didn't have everything that I needed, in that respect. And this is something as a spiritual community. We teach a lot on this, because we firmly believe that it's not one spiritual father, one spiritual mother. And I said this earlier, just because I'm a natural father does not mean I'm a spiritual father. That's another whole teaching. That's a set of characteristics and qualities and commitments, and all of those things that really define what a spiritual father or mother is. But my goal is to be a spiritual father. My goal is to be a spiritual father to my own children, and to my own grandchildren. And I believe that's a, like I said earlier, that's a long term eternal, lifelong calling. But this is really not a program. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's really felt more than it is programmed or planned. Yeah, very natural. So, you know, as kids and I'm, I know, we're kind of going along with this, but this is important. As children grow up, as a father, I'm like a gardener. I'm looking, I'm going, Okay. This kid a tomato plant, or a pepper plant or a combination. I'm looking for their gifts. I'm looking for their talents. I'm looking for their passion. I'm looking for all those things, because I want to know how to cultivate and feed them in a way that will just pay them mo they're calling their gifts, and to grow in that DNA which God has made them specifically, not make them into my image, not make them go do what I did, but also not just leave them to their own devices. So as I'm looking at that, I start seeing things in their lives. And it gives me clues to who they are. Amazingly, guys, there's these people in our lives that have a similar DNA or similar gift or something to offer them. And it can be something as simple as I've got a son in the back in the minivan, who won't won't quit beaten on the side of the van. He's all the time, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, but all the time, guys, I mean, it was monotonous. And suddenly, it dawns on me, you've got a drummer in your family. You have a drummer in your family. Lo and behold, there's a drummer at The Chapel where I'm pastoring. He goes, Hey, he goes, I've taught drumming. He goes, You don't don't buy any drums. He goes, go buy a drum pad, tell him to bring it to chapel before practice. I bring this buy this drum pad, we partake it in, he teaches him over a period of two or three months, the 25 Fundamental if there's just 2525 fundamentals of drumming, and he's drumming and he's a little kid, he's like this tall. He's a little kid. Before you know it, he's like, Hey, dude, he's ready for drums. I'm like, okay, so we bind drums. Oh, man. So that was a loud experience. This is this is no kidding. I'm using the drum example. But you can apply this to anything. Pretty soon. He's like a, like, I can't even believe it. And so our chapel by this time had exploded in growth. And like, 600 people in the chapel were meeting in this gym. And they had him on the drops. Well, he's so little, there's a huge drum set. He so little, you cannot see him. The drumset is there. And there's nobody. And the music starts and the drums are incredible. And I'll never forget this one guy named Joey was in the back. He was a helicopter pilot. And he looked at me, he goes, that's insane. But to me, I was like, You know what, I just, God had to kind of keep bumping on the back of the van with my son. Get my attention. Guys, how many things in our lives are like this where God is trying to get our attention is go, Hey, pay attention, see this in his life. See this in her life. And I would love to tell you a lot of stories. But it's those mentors that come in. Yeah, that guy just taught him drumming. But the next guy or so that came into his life. He had a love for horses, he loved horses. Next thing you know, one of his mentors, is a rancher that forever changed his life. And he became a prolific horseman like you cannot, like incredible. And that guy spoke deeply into his life spiritually. And on every level that he spoke into his life on a phenomenal level. But I had to catch it with the drum pad first, so that I could see that. And then all of us could tell a lot of stories like this, but God brings them in if we're paying attention, so long answer to a short question. Yeah.

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