Success vs. Legacy. Becoming Spiritual Fathers - Dick Dungan and Rod Mills

​Elijah found that there are two different lifestyles of serving God, not one. This is not a lifestyle of not serving God and a lifestyle of serving God, but two different lifestyles: the Success Paradigm and the Legacy Paradigm. Either way can be serving God, that doesn't mean it's best. ​

Full transcript generated by ai (please excuse errors):

​We've got two recorders to make sure. I hear you, man. I've had so many experience with these recorders. I don't trust myself, I don't trust recorders. I'm like, Man, I'm gonna. By God's grace, we're gonna get it on recording tonight. Amen. Thank you, brothers for leading worship. You know, you can tell when a worship leader has been with Jesus. And your task is not musical. It's spiritual. Because your role is to get us in the presence of Jesus. And we're talking about that relational presence that's different. You guys know that right? The Omni presence of God. I have pastor friends who don't understand that. We say Lord come closer, and they're like, What are you talking about? God's already there? And what why does it say draw near to God, then? Amen. And He will draw near to you, you guys have led us into the presence of the Lord. And I want to thank you. Because you can't do that without being with Jesus. In order to do that, and it means a lot to me personally, I'll tell you that first night we start worshipping, if you didn't come on Wednesday night, and we'll make you feel bad. You missed out. That's when I had those three visions, the power of the Lord, I could have been I could just stayed here all night, Wednesday night worshiping. And it started from the very first song, The Holy Spirit's presence was so strong. Amen. Well, hey, I'm excited to be with you tonight. And this weekend. We, brother Dick and I are going to share a few things. But it's just going to be a little bit right, we're just going to share with you a little bit of some other things we've shared. And so I wrote this on the board. Dicks teaching at the retreat in September is on teaching number number 211 of our teaching of our teaching library, Aaron Nova, you can download, everything's free, you can download this at the Apple or the Google App Store. Because whatever you hear him say tonight, if you want to hear a whole lot more of it, it's on teaching number 211. Same, and I tried to put some of the teachings because what I'm going to talk about tonight, we have several hours of it. And if you want to go listen to that you can that's available. And then also several have asked for notes. Tonight, I'm going to share with you from a very short series I did and part of it was at the retreat. So I've got a set of notes, they're longer than the ones I sent you. They're about 15 pages now. And I've got another set from another series there. That's almost 100 pages. So if you have an Apple device, I tell you what, at the end of the night, I'll send it out. If you have an Apple device, you need to do two things. Well really three things, go to general on settings, and click on the airdrop and click everyone. That means you can receive something from everyone. And we'll do we'll talk about this again. Then turn your Wi Fi on for the Wi Fi and turn your Bluetooth on. And if you do those three things, I will AirDrop tonight at the end I'll AirDrop in this room, the almost 100 pages of notes and the 15 pages of notes if you'd like those, and those will be in PDF format. Amen. Well guys, as as I've been so blessed by all the sharing, and you probably heard me taking notes I was sitting over there one night I can't remember who it was was sitting next to me and we're just typing away I can type faster than I can write. And man I was typing and trying to gather notes as much as possible. But I've been so blessed by the sharing and I was just contemplating these past this is 48 years this year for me and walking with the Lord and one of the most fulfilling probably the most fulfilling aspect of this has been I call it a spiritual art of walking in delighting in the Lord it's an art because it's an art you have to learn it you know and no matter how good you get you can always get better and there's a and it's been so fulfilling. It's been way more fulfilling than anything else that I found in the Christian walk is walking in the joy in the delight of just the the the Father's heart. It's been more joyful, more content more fulfilling. than anything I've ever done in my life. But it's also been a learned process. When David talked about delighting himself in God, he wasn't giving us an intellectual or an informational thing. He was literally exploding like a volcano, saying, you know, he was in it, it was experiential for him to delight himself in God. Have you ever had anyone who had just this phenomenal meal? I tell you, I had the most incredible sea bass meal I've ever had in my life when we were doing an inner healing conference back in October, in southern Alabama. And so I started telling my brother about it. And when I started telling a man, I was like, Man, you got it. And I started describing he goes, Man, my, my mouths watering right now. I wasn't giving him an intellectual report on the sea bass recipe, right? I was trying to give him the commercial version. You know, the commercials when the hamburgers are more beautiful than they ever are at McDonald's or wherever, and they're juicy, and everything's perfect, and you just ate. But somehow, when you finish watching the commercial, your mouth is watering, you're hungry all over again. You're like, How can I possibly be hungry. And that was the kind of thing I was feeling just telling him about that recipe or that that that meal. And that's the way David was when he talked to us about delighting in the Lord is He He will give you the desires of your heart. He's literally speaking out of a man who's delighting in God and has been delighting in God in his history in him since he was a young man on the backside of the mountain when it's just him and God. And so he's speaking out of his experience, it's flowing out of him. And the scriptures are really filled with and I appreciated gradients, some of the other shared a few of what I call the keys of the kingdom, the secrets of the kingdom, that will really unlock or help us find our way into that lifestyle. And here's the challenge I've seen with men. Men are, it's interesting, and I gotta be careful these days. But I'm gonna stereotype of some men get in ruts. We like routine. We like we get into a rut. And we're I mean, we like we got our routine. And man, my grandkids asked me one day, they said, Papa, how come you wear the same clothes every day? Because I got now they don't know, I got a certain pair of shorts. And I got like, several different pair in the same color. Because shirts the same way I got several of these shirts, you probably noticed some of them are the same colors. Some of them are different. And I looked at him, I said, Well, what about your dad, he wears the same clothes to work every day, because he's in the military. And they're like, Oh, I said, I was in the military for several decades, I'm used to wearing the same clothes every day. I got what something I like and I stick with it. Right? My wife appreciates that as a wife. Amen. Some of you got that. But we get into ruts. But we also get into dead end patterns. And what I'm finding is over the years, there's old timers who have the keys of the kingdom. And they don't just have one or two, when you start talking to them. They go well, here, let me help you and they pull out and they got this key ring that's filled with keys. And they're like, any one of these will get you out of this rut. It's like there's not there's more than one way to get out of the rut and and get into the lifestyle of delighting in God. And some of these guys have shared several different things. And any one of those keys will get you out of the rut. The the issue is you got to take the key, put it in the lock, turn it and open the door and get out of that rut. And we're gonna talk for a few minutes about Elijah tonight. And Elijah found himself in in this place as he was journeying to the mountain cave. Elijah needed to get some answers from God. And literally, Elijah had been in what I call the paradigm of success. Now stick with me on this because I think you'll see it as we delve into the Scripture a little bit. And God was getting ready to transition him into a whole different way of living. Much like our own lives. Elijah's life is the tale of two paradigms, two ways of living two perspectives of seeing and experiencing the world. Two completely different types of motivations. Two different here this lifestyles of serving God hang on to that. Because there's he's gonna we're gonna find out Elijah found there was two different lifestyles of serving God Not one. And there's probably more than two. But the point I want to make is one is not a lifestyle of not serving God and a lifestyle of serving God. It's two different lifestyles and either way can be serving God, that doesn't mean it's best. And in the, in the cave with just him and God, Elijah, Elijah comes face to face with his own failures and his own mortality in his own weakness. But God was launching him in that time, on to a trajectory that would change his life forever. As a matter of fact, I believe what happened to Elijah in that cave that night, that day, was a was literally God started something in him that started off these dominoes, this chain reaction of falling, and those dominoes are still falling today. Something happened in that cave. It started this chain reaction of something I call the mantle of Elijah. And I got that from the Bible. So I'm, it's not I didn't make that up. And we see Malikai pick up on it years later, and prophesied at the last two verses of the Bible. Then we see that John the Baptist is walking in it. Then we see in Matthew 11, Jesus affirms that John the Baptist is walking in it. Then we see in Matthew 17, that Jesus goes, Oh, John the Baptist is Elijah. And then he goes, and if you can receive it a lie Elijah is coming again. So you know, Jesus didn't believe in reincarnation, right? He wasn't saying, Elijah got reincarnated in He's John the Baptist body, right? He's talking about an anointing, a mantle, a relationship with the Holy Spirit, relationship with God, that's very unique, very unique. And then Jesus says any, it's really important that Jesus said that about John the Baptist, because now he's given us a lens to see what he's talking about at the end of the age. Because John the Baptist preceded the first coming of the Lord, and John the Baptist, again, the spirit of Elijah, this anointing will precede the second coming of the Lord. And according to Malikai, this is an anointing to turn hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers. But Elijah was an operating in that before the cave, he was operating in something different. He was operating in what I call a, a success paradigm. Now, I want to jump over in my notes for a moment, because we don't have a lot of time tonight. But some people say and I say this up front, just so it's clear, because some people will doubt this when we go get into it unless I just put it out there first. Elijah was a spiritual father. And the scriptures actually revealed this. And they reveal it in Second Kings, chapter two, verse 12, if you remember, whenever Elijah was about to be taken up, do you remember what Elijah said to him? He will, this was this is close. Yeah, absolutely. And that's an important point we're going to talk about later, he cries out to him, do you remember what he called him? He says, My father, my father, the chariots and the Horsemen of Israel. First time I can find in the Old Testament, that a prophet is called my father, who's not his physical, biological father. Whoa, now you got my attention. All right, we just see Elijah is a spiritual father, to Elijah. But it didn't stop there. And this is the beauty of the mantle of Elijah. It happens in Second Kings 1314. Alicia is about to die with a disease with which he would die. And King Joash says, My father, my father, and he cries out to him that he's about to pass the same words just pretty close. Sure, I think it was chariots and horsemen of Israel, but I don't have an open. And so we see that a Elijah was a spiritual father and it was passed on to Alicia now Malikai four makes a lot more sense. When it says he will turn the hearts of fathers to the children. This is what spiritual fathers do. Oh, man, the hairs raising up on my head on my arms and legs right now because this anointing it's so powerful. And and so the question is what happened to Elijah? Up until this time in the story, Elijah had been focused on his mission, pay close attention his call In his success, his failure. And through this crisis, God brought him to this strategic transition in his life. So here he's in his cave. And God starts to transition him from success to legacy. From a life being focused on being a leader, position, title, label, to being in a legacy, a paradigm of legacy, a legacy paradigm, from being a leader, to being a what a father. Wow. Now, I don't think he knew it. And this forever changed Elijah's life. And it changed a whole lot of other lives. And I predict, it's changing our lives right now. I believe that these dominoes, this chain reaction, this Holy Spirit, divine ordained, anointing relationship with God, mantle is being passed down, father to son, father, to son, father to son spiritually and naturally, for those men who walk as spiritual fathers. Now, there is a component of this for women. But let me say this, for all the people listening on to this somewhere else is we're talking to a group of men here. So I'm going to continue using the application to men in this setting, because this is a men's gathering. And so this is an extraordinary thing that begins to happen in his life. So Elijah, that what we see is in verse three, and I'm not going to read first Kings 19. But that's where I'm going to refer to in First Kings 19. In verse three, Elijah had isolated himself. Now what he think about this, who isolates themselves, he was focused on a success paradigm in his life in His ministry. And it's easy to isolate yourself when you're focused on on your personal success. I'll tell you guys, I have so many friends who are very successful, and they're very lonely. They're very lonely people. They have people all around them, but they're lonely. The success paradigm itself will drive you to isolate yourself. Then in verse 10, he talks to God about how zealous he is. And he says, Lord, I'm the only guy left. He believes he's the only guy there are things when you look in the mirror too much and you're too focused on success, your own personal success, you start to believe things about yourself and other people. That's not true because you're isolated. Again, his focus being on himself. Alicia was so discouraged in First Kings 19. Do you remember what he wanted to do? He wanted to die. Now let's Let's back up for a minute. Let's see what just happened. Elijah prayed for three and a half years that would not rain. It didn't rain. Elijah prayed that it would rain man, as cloud, the size of a man's hand came hit rain, and he ran a marathon back to the other cities pretty healthy, right? He gets over there. He confronts the prophets of Baal. He cries out to God, God brings fire down from heaven and consumes the altar, then it gets victory over 450 prophets of Bale, we're on a pretty good track record right now. Jezebel finds out and threatens to kill him and he falls apart. Now, it sounds to me like he's a pretty successful guy. Listen, guys, if we operate in a paradigm of success, instead of a paradigm of legacy, you will never be fulfilled, it will never be enough, you will never be good enough. You can be as anointed as Elijah, you can have the books of the Bible written about you Old and New Testament, you could have these glorious Mount Carmel experiences. And the next thing you know you're going to be before God telling him you want to die. The success paradigm will never be enough. There's another way of living. You starting to get the idea. The success paradigm will set you up for discouragement. It'll set you up to compare yourself to someone that's better than you. It will set you up for jealousy, negative emotions, because you're focused too much on your own success. And the enemy will tell you you're doing the right thing because it'll make you a better man of God. And we've been hearing teaching on this all week. About if I do this, I do this, I do this, I do this. But let's back up and say what is causing us to think this way, the success paradigm. It's what Elijah was stuck in this rut that he was stuck in. So he had this great victory, and yet he was ready to quit and almost ready to kill himself or die or something. He was focused on More on himself and what he could do for God. He said in verse four, listen to this in verse four, he goes, for I'm no better than my father's. Alright, first of all, we already learned this week, don't compare yourself to other people. But Elijah doesn't just compare himself to other people. He picks the gold standard. You know, he's picking Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and Joseph, and all these guys. And he's comparing go, man, I'm not any better than them like he was going to be like that was important to him. You know what God does? I really don't think so. I really don't think God cares. You seen him saying that he cares. God's not looking at it going let's measure you up. Let's let me just put you over here on the scale. And then we'll put Abraham on the scale. We'll put brother dick on the scale. We'll get Keith on the scale. And we'll see if you measure up or not. Do you think God cares about that? You loving fathers out there use you guys that are loving fathers, you love your kids? Do you do that? I mean, if you do, you need to stop. But no father, good fathers don't do that. I don't March my kids in and go, Well, let's see who's the better and I know guys that have done that. But it's evil. You can't do that. Because God doesn't do that. Somebody say amen. In ministry in life, if if people operate in this paradigm, what ends up happening is they get so nervous about doing a good job, that they're scared to do it. They're they're afraid to, I don't think it's any any mistake that in the parable of the talents, the guy that went and hid his talent was the guy with one ever notice that. And just in case you didn't think there might be a pattern Jesus gives us another parable, the parable demeanors. And the same thing happens. Why didn't Jesus say the guy with five did it? Why does he keep saying the guy with one went and buried his talent? Okay, listen, it's possible that some of us are one talent people. And there's nothing wrong with that. Right? But don't let the enemy lie to you and go, Well, you're not Billy Graham, and you're not this guy. And you're not that guy. And you're not the CEO of such and such. And you're not a general in the military. And you're not. You might as well just go bury your talent, you don't have much. See the success paradigm will cause you to think that way. Right? And then that the guy goes and buries his talent because he believes the lie. And, you know, really, if you're a one talent person like me, it's actually a good place to be because Jesus says concerning the widow, hey, she gave more than them all. She only had two and she gave everything she had. She gave more than y'all. Right. Right. So really, the truth is that it's a great place to be. We don't have time tonight. But if you can go to the teaching library, we talk about the unseen Elijah's the 7000 that God has reserved for himself. Go listen to that. I'll tell you what, man, it's rad. Romans 11 what Paul says it will blow you away. All right. A couple more things here. We're gonna have brother did come and talk to us about spiritual fathering. God throws Elijah curveball. You gotta admit, what do you think? Just think for a second. Just speculate with me for a second. What do you think Elijah thought was going to happen when he went to the cave? I've thought much about this. And I'm gonna give you my theory. This is just a theory of speculation. My theory is I think, first of all, Jezebel really messed him up. I'm like, How can you be scared of her? You just, you just took care of 450 prophets of Baal fire came down out of heaven. You prayed it wouldn't rain and you prayed it did rain. What are you scared of man? But again, he was in that success paradigm. And I think he came to God and he's like, Lord, I'm the only one left I thought he wanted Mount Carmel on steroids. I think he was like, God, we got to deal with this woman. You know, I think that's probably something of what he was thinking like, Lord, I'm down here. I'm by myself. And and, and I know we've had some powerful things happen. But we need something really big you because I think he was thinking in that success paradigm and I think God threw him a curveball, because God told him something is like, wait a minute, what? I'm gonna read that scripture First Kings 19 I'm gonna start in verse 15. Then the Lord said to him, go return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus. And when you arrive, anoint Hazel as King overseer, Syria and anoint Jehu the son of nem she is king over Israel, and Alicia the son of che phat avaible mela WISH YOU SHALL anoint as profit in your place. All right now it sounds like his life is at what your profit and my place. That's not what's happening. Stay stick with Is it shall be the whoever escapes the sort of hazy LJ who will kill whoever escapes a sort of Jehu Alicia will kill. And he says yet I've reserved 7000 in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to bail and every mouth that has not kissed me. So he departed. From there. He found Alicia, the son of Schaefer who was plowing with 12, yoke of oxen before him, and he was with the 12. Then Elijah passed by him through his mantle on him. So God used Elijah to anoint three people, God, I love this about the Lord. Have you ever noticed, usually God will give you simple instructions, if you start getting really complicated instructions? Be suspect. Because usually, when God speaks to you, it's going to be really simple. Hey, go anoint these three guys, this guy, this guy, this guy, and God used him to anoint this three. And you know, I love this, the mantle is irrespective of professions. It's not about okay, just go, just go mentor, another prophet. Right? This has nothing to do with what the discipline or profession they were in. This was about God passing on the mantle of Elijah, to the key people. And as the Lord transitioned him into this legacy paradigm, you getting it now. It's about focus on others. As he did this, God begin to multiply that anointing that father spiritual father anointing that was on him on to these men. We know that's true, because Alicia called him father and Joash called Alicia father, right. So we know that there's a mantle there that's been imparted to them. And I don't think Elijah had set out by Elijah had set out to be a spiritual father, I don't think he did. But here, I'll tell you this. When we get close to the Father, you ever gotten really close to somebody? And you start acting like them, don't you? You start thinking like them. And you start seeing life, like my wife and I are like, we've been married 35 years. It's crazy. Like, she'll say something and I'm getting ready to say the exact words. You know, I'm saying, or she'll say, What do you want for dinner, and I said, I was saying about spaghetti. Last thing about spaghetti, too. I don't know what it is. But you get into this unity rhythm, this oneness rhythm, because you're close to each other. You, I tell you, if you hang around God, you will become a father. Because his father's heart is just going to bleed all over you. It's going to soak in, you're going to feel his words, his heart, his actions toward you, and you're gonna be like, Man, I love this so much. I want to do this for somebody else. And it's just soaks in, and it becomes more. And the other way it happens. I believe we were just talking about this yesterday. And Dick's gonna talk a lot to us about this. Is it happens when we get with men who have walked with God this way? Right? And they have been with God. And they have the father, heart of God is just soaked so deep into them, that when you're around them, the father, heart of God just starts soaking into you, because you're around them. What's that called? That's called being spiritual son. And you're gonna talk to us about that? How does? How do we become spiritual fathers? By being spiritual sons. That's how life should became I love Alicia, you guys were somebody said it earlier. And my wife didn't have a clue what we're talking about. I didn't tell her what the theme was, or anything. And yesterday, she sent me that scripture with Alicia, saying, I won't leave you. And by the way, that was before he asked for a double portion. He didn't even know what the requirements were for the double portion. He just Elijah was like, hey, you know, I'm gonna You stay here. And he's like, as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you. And then he does it again. He goes as the Lord lives and as you live, I won't leave you he does it three times before he even asked about the double portion. That's called being a spiritual son. That's what spiritual sons do. That's the kind of spiritual son commitment I want to spiritual fathers in my life. Deke, you're one of them. And I, we talked about this at the retreat last year, not this year, and how important it is for us to honor our spiritual fathers that's on the teaching library, if you will listen to it, about us learning to honor spiritual fathers. This is important that we live this way. Not I mean, intentionally, not accidentally, right. And as we do, God is raising us up both his sons and his fathers. And this anointing comes upon us. All of the places in scripture that I can find. The sons of the prophets. This is interesting, occur in Elijah and Elijah has ministries you heard of the sons of the prophets. Guess what? Go do a search on it in your life. Tronic Bibles. It's all in Elijah and Elijah his life. And the sons of the prophets were schools of the prophets. But what was interesting was, they hadn't seen schools of the prophets in Israel since the time of Samuel. So Elijah goes and he obeys God, and imparts and lays hands on three guys like the Lord says. And what he didn't know was that this mantle, this anointing of the Holy Spirit, explodes into all these men. And then we start seeing the schools called sons of the prophets. Why weren't they called schools of the prophets? Why were they called sons of the prophets? Because they were birthed out of relationships with fathers. Right? Go do a search, you won't find I couldn't find any other place in the Scripture, except Elijah and Elijah has ministry where the sons of the prophets come, and it doesn't they don't raise up until after a Elijah obeys God, the legacy paradigm. Man is powerful. sons of the prophets. Man, I'll tell you guys, every time I obey God, I get more than I bargained for. I don't have time to tell you I got some stories. I would love to tell you, but we'll do it a different time, where God will say, why don't you go do this? Okay, Lord. And you know how half the time we're obeying God and ignorance. We don't know. He just we're doing it because he said to do it. And he goes here, take this with you. And he hands you something, you're like, What is this, you just obey me. And then you find out that little obedience is equivalent to like winning the last lottery, you meant you hear about that? $2 billion lottery. That's the way I feel. I will be God in some area. I don't know. And at the end of the day, I'm like, the fruit from it is like I've struck the lottery. I had no clue God, I had no idea that the returns on this obedience was so big. And God's going, Hey, why don't you do that? When God says, Once you go do this, I got this in mind for you. Do it. Just do it, man. Because he's got something up his sleeve. He's wanting to bless you. You know, God's a giver, right? He loves to give. I got to amens. Wait, stop right there. We got to have that revelation. I tell you, man, I love to give. I love to give to the people I love. I love to give to my family. I love to give to my spiritual family. It's so much fun to give. And you know what, I wasn't always that way. But the closer you get to God is just like, you can't help yourself. I told my grandkids last year I said kids, we're gonna start a new tradition. Every time it's my birthday, you all get a y'all get a birthday gift. See, tell me what you want. For Papa's birthday. I'm trying to find other holidays, I can give them more gifts, because it's just that loving to give. And that's the Father's heart. So to close this out and turn it over to brother Dick, I want to just go to contrasting these two paradigms of the success paradigm and the legacy paradigm. We can operate out either one in our service to God, our love for God in ministry, everything we can be operating out of either one, the success paradigm as a way of thinking, living, developing focus around being successful, even in the good things. As Christians, we may be living out of this paradigm and focused on being successful for all the right reasons. If this is the paradigm you live in, it seems completely right. When you're in it. That's a problem. Because now I can't see, the better unless I'm around people who live in the other one. The legacy paradigm is also a way of thinking, living, developing focus around reproducing a legacy. It's part in it. Personal Success takes a backseat Are you with me? It takes a backseat to the success of others, and investment to others. That'll set you free. It'll set you free. This paradigm is all about love. It thrives out of the overflow of the great commandments. This is why Jesus says the first and greatest commandment is Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind strength, because if you get that right, all the others will just start falling into place coming into orbit. In this paradigm, personal success is not the focus. Legacy is the focus. Now this is counterintuitive to the flesh, guys. The flesh doesn't understand this worldly wisdom doesn't understand this. This is the definition of true success of the kingdom. The success paradigm focuses on how much I can do. You ever served with a leader like that? Christian leaders, right? Not just worldly leaders. The legacy paradigm focuses on how much others can do. Changes doesn't the success paradigm focuses on Under how much I can affect that's effect with an A, okay, what can I affect, I can touch this, I can push that I can pull this lever, I can have a direct impact. That's the success layer paradigm focuses on that. But the legacy paradigm focuses on how much I can effect. You see the difference, because effect means I touch something. But then all these other things happen, people do things. And that happens and people do things and they obey and multiplication happens. And then other people are entering in to God's ways in God's heart. The first is how much I can personally give firsthand influence. And the second is how much I can help others influence. If success is a whole target legacies, the bullseye if you aim for success to target, you might hit the bullseye, you might hit legacy. But if you aim for legacy, you will always hit success. The legacy paradigm is crowd sourced by impartation. Right. And multiplication through relationships, the success paradigm, it's more focused, even in good works. It's more self focused. You look back to just go when you get some time, go back and read first Kings 19. With this with this new lens, just go back and read and listen to Elijah's language. And you're going to see success paradigm all over it. The less the legacy paradigm is more others focused in the legacy paradigm. Humans humility comes a lot more easily. Oh, I like this. Because personal legacy is focused on other people. You guys that have been parents for a long time, you know what I'm talking about? Man, I'll tell you, you get around me, and I'm gonna start bragging on my kids. And I'm gonna start bragging on my grandkids. I didn't do that. They did it. Right. But there is a tremendous, there's a holy pride, can I say it that way? There's this, this pride of a father, not evil pride, but this, this pride of a father. Because, yes, you invested in them. But it's their success. That's the love of the Father and its legacy. And when we love this way, we start to transcend a lot of this stuff that that the that the success paradigm does not tell you guys, you start delighting in the Lord when you live this way. Oh, it'll come natural. Because you don't. Grady was touching on this a little bit this morning. He didn't use this word. But delighting in the Lord requires a crucified lifestyle. Because I have to learn first to crucify my own desires. And when I crucified them, then I start taking on those desires of the Father. Man, I love to live this way. Because then I am, I'm literally enjoying what God is enjoying. Right? It's a different way of living. Paul said those who compare themselves among themselves are not wise. You know? We don't do that. As men of God that love our kids. We don't. I mean, I've know some I know of some fleshly fathers that don't don't know God that do this, but I don't look at my kids and go, Well, you know, I'm going to compare myself to you. That's a fleshly envious thing. I'm looking at him going, Man, how can I help you go further than I went? How can I help you do better than I did? How can I help you run faster than I ran? And this is the heart of the Father. Okay, do you believe Jesus even did it? Okay, Jesus, who is the the best of the best? is able to go to the disciples and say, These works and greater works than these. Shall you do? Okay, now, if Jesus can raise up people to do greater works than he did? Surely he can help us do it. Because Jesus is a pretty high mark. And this is the heart of a spiritual father. There's so much more of this. You guys can get it. You guys could get this from these teachers. That's why I provided them. But I'm going to ask Brother dick, if you would come. And he's going to talk to us more about how this translates into being a spiritual father, and a whole lot more. It's a blessing to to hang out with Rod and to be a part of his life for the last 29 years, you know, in October of nine 1873 We ended up in St. Petersburg, Russia together doing church planning. 90 what I say? 93 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's a second time I've said that this year. Or this time I've been down here. So in 1993, this is still 29 years ago, you know, he was in his 20s. And I was younger than I am right now, you know, you know, we've been carrying this delight theme, you know, delighting in the Lord and great, he gave us an assignment. Yesterday, as we walked through the scriptures together in a time of devotion, and said, just read through the scriptures as I go through them, and meditate and reflect upon them and just look for the one that the Holy Spirit might just bring off the page to you, you know, and so I'm walking through with him, you know, this, all of us who were here at that time, were and got down to verse 25. And it said, You were young, and now you're old. And then, of course, it goes on to make some beautiful promises, but I thought, That's really true. You know, I was young. And from a human standpoint, at age 80, which I just turned in September, I am old, you know, and I'll be honest with you, it's a lot of my friends have passed on. You know, people that have walked with through the years, they're gone, they're home with the Lord now. So the mentors in my life are gone, have been gone. And so when you start reading the obituary, and you see that people were passing on that are younger than you and yours, you're thanking the Lord for every day you have, you know, and I'm just gonna be honest to you. I live for the legacy, watching me and love God. Bless my heart cry. Lord spoke into my spirit years ago when he said, If men will get right with me, marriages will get healed. And when marriages get healed, the church will be empowered to do what I've commissioned it to do. So that's been in my spirit for 3040 years now. Some of you know that 49 years ago, yesterday morning at two o'clock, I was at Parkland Hospital in Dallas, Texas. And they just performed surgery on me to keep me alive after driving underneath the semi tractor trailer rig, because I gotten drunk. Because I was living out of the Adamic life success model was driven because I was trying to find identity in a false paradigm. But the great Hound of Heaven. The wonderful Holy Spirit, chase me down. In January 1976, when I gave my life to Christ, he started doing work from the inside out, start peeling me like an onion. I often use that one layer at a time brought healing to my marriage. I've done everything that a man could do to destroy his marriage for 13 years. But God started doing a work in my life about healing in March coming my wife Mary now be married 60 years that's six oh and I'm so grateful. And honestly, guys, I don't know how many more years I have. None of us do. And I've talked Lord lately, Lord, You've blessed me so much. If you call me tomorrow, I'd be ready. I don't want to go. I want to stay in enjoy my grandkids. I want to stay in enjoy brothers. And I love the gray beards here. But I tell you the group I love. Now I have a heart for these young guys right here. These young guys, every young guy in this place, I don't want them to have to live through what I lived through. To find out a wonderful relationship with God is an intimate relationship. walking with Him every day, watching him, hear the cry of your heart, and watching them, meet you in the midst of it, even through the pain. Because it's in the deepest places of the pain of our life, that we find the transforming power of God, and the Word of God and the promises of God. And that's my heart. I have way more to share with you tonight than I can possibly share. That's always the case. But you know, you just trust it to go, but I want to read something to you. Because we talked about sons, you referred to sons. And this was just a note I had. And I honestly don't remember where I picked it up. But do you ever see things that strike a chord with you. And then you say, Man, I gotta take a hold of that. So I just wrote it down on my iPad, and then printed it out. And I'm going to read it to you. It says this, a beloved son is one who experiences the unconditional love of his father, in a way that deeply impacts him, and leaves him with nothing to hide, nothing to prove, and nothing to fear. And we read it again, a beloved son, and each one of you, our beloved sons of God, you wouldn't be here if you weren't already that whether you're walking in the reality of it or not. God ordained for you to be here to bring you to a greater understanding of that reality. So this is who he says you are. Beloved Son is one who experiences the unconditional love of his father in a way that deeply impacts him, and leaves him with nothing to hide, nothing to prove, and nothing to fear. I love that. That's my prayer for every one of us. That will walk in such a way we have nothing to hide, nothing to prove. Nothing to fear, that's grabbed my heart. So over the next few minutes, I'm going to look at some New Testament scripture that I really believe is a picture of what Rod was talking about. I've often said, I'm not a theologian, but I'm a practitioner of the work. You know, I mean, I have some Bible training, but no degrees. I just had been hungry for God from the day I got saved. So I've consumed tapes and teachings and whatever I could and went to a Bible school for a brief period of time to get better equipped. But some things that I've learned is this journey of just listening to God along the way and trusting him to lead you in the process. And the Holy Spirit is the greatest teacher we can have. So I'm going to read a scripture to you that Paul relates to us and it's in First Corinthians and if you've been in the Bible at all, you're familiar with it, the first grantee or Corinthian church had its issues. With then I look at our church today and it has its issues. You know. So First Corinthians, I want to just and I have a handout there, I think there's only 35 or 40 handouts, but you can get them out. Did you end up listing the handout with this tape? Do you know if the handout that we use if not, I can get it to you if we run out but there's like 35 or so of them back there if you want it so what I'm going through briefly, will be in that handout back there. Okay. Started out scriptural biblical foundations for raising spiritual fathers and sons two years ago A year and a half ago and Rod, address this subject and he invited me to participate with him on the journey. My question was, is, if we're going to talk about spiritual fathers, and we're going to talk about spiritual mothers, then what does the Scripture say? That they look alike. Because if we don't know what something looks like that we're looking for, then it's pretty good chance we won't find it. So that's part of my mindset in the practical nature of, of, of just taking the word in my heart for years, I've, I've read the scriptures, and I've been honest with the Lord and said, Lord, I love what I'm reading here. But I gotta be honest with you, I don't know how that applies to my life. I love what I'm here, and I'm bearing witness with it in my spirit, but I don't know how to apply it to my journey, would you help me know how to apply it to my life, so I can walk it out, and it can become a part of my being. I know, you've all probably heard this, but repetition is the mother of learning. And when you keep doing something the right way, all the time, it produces good results. If you're doing something the wrong way all the time, it doesn't produce good results. So I'll just give you the header here, again, spiritual slash biblical foundations for raising spiritual fathers and spiritual mothers. So obviously, in the context of this, I believe it applies to both genders, spiritual fathers and mothers. But again, as we said, Tonight, Ron said, we're addressing us as a men right now. So in First Corinthians four, verses 14 through 17, it says this, I do not write these things to shame you. But as my beloved children, I warn you. For though you might have 10,000 instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For in Jesus Christ, I have begotten you through the gospel, therefore, I urge you to imitate me. And for this reason, I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved Son, is a spiritual father to him. A beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere, in every church. This scripture came to me probably 2025 30 years ago, Jim, before we start doing the Father, Son thing. Lord spoke to me one time when I was approaching 60, that's 20 years ago. And I'm thinking I'm getting old, then. Now I see several of you are probably 60. Or close. And I said, Lord, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? You know, you've given me so much, you blessed me so much, but what am I going to do? Then that quietness, just spending time alone to the Lord spoke to me and he said, I want you to take some men away to a quiet place to learn how to recognize my voice in the quiet place. Because unless my sons learn how to recognize my voice in a quiet place, they won't be able to recognize it, in the noisy place of everyday life is too much static. So I challenged some guys to do that. And several of them took me on it, three, three of them took me up on it, and then another one took me up on it, and then another one took me up on it and for you know, of that group grew to about somewhere between eight and 10. Guys, I think Jim someplace dinner, you know, and they had some, like, 50 kids, and then productive bunch, you know, great. young warriors, several those young men are here right now. So we started on that journey together. And, and honestly, I didn't have a great vision. All I had was a word. You know, sometimes we talked Lord, give me a vision, you know, Do this, do that, you know, we're waiting for this. We're waiting for this clear direction. And it was a simple word, take some men away to a quiet place, or not hear my voice. Sounds like, okay. I'll try it. When we went away, I had no clue what I was doing. Except I knew we need to spend time in worship. And I knew we need to spend time in the Word. And we need to learn to know one another and get to know one another. And I've been in the corporate world long enough and in this world long enough to know that men carry a lot of stuff you carry A lot of load on your shoulders a lot of responsibility. And Lord just spoke that still small voice and said, don't try to teach him a bunch of stuff. I did I hear an amen. Don't take me away and start lecturing. You know. So Spirit of God, gentle Ed me, and maybe I'm trying to help you with a little bit of an easy way to just connect with guys. But Lord, you said, you need to let them share what's on their mind, or they want to hear a thing you're saying, you know? So we went out to this retreat center, and I said, Let's go for a walk. So we started walking and for you know what I'd say one of the guys, so what are you carrying with you the day what's going on in your heart? And they would start downloading and I say to other guys, okay, let's pray for him. Then we go to the next one, do the same thing. The next one, do the same thing. And just get all that stuff that we were carrying, just download it, you know, that group. We started with two miles, walking. And I think we grew to where we were probably walking about four miles before we got done with everybody that was stalking, you know, relieving what was on their mind what's on their heart. So over that journey, the Lord led me to First Thessalonians to Allah share scripture with you. And I just want to expound on a little bit, because there's not a lot of time tonight. But I challenge you to look at this. And there's some things I want to point out to you in this scriptures. First Saloni NS two, verses seven through 12. Paul gives us a beautiful picture of what it's like to represent both the the father heart on both the feminine side of God and the masculine side of God. What does the spiritual mother look like? What's a spiritual father look like? Why am I say that saying that? Because in this text, you'll see that he is saying that his group he and Timothy and Silas at least the ones we know that were with him, according to Scripture, we don't know how big the party was. But he at least identifies those three that are with him or two that are with him. And he says this, For stress alone, Ian's two, verses seven through 12, he says, but we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children. So affectionately longing for you. We were, we were well pleased to impart to you not only the gospel of God, but also our own lives. Because you had become dear to us. To interesting, he's describing these men that were aware of himself and Timothy and Silas. And he is saying, we were to you, like a mother. That's an interesting thought, guys. Obviously, as men, we can't impart natural life. But every one of us through the power of the word working in us, and the person and work of the Holy Spirit working through his, we can impart life. And that's what he's called us to do. Just like he describes here that a mother would do. Amen. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. They labor and they toil What does a mother do with new children? Babies, they labor and they feed them, they care for them. So we're putting this not in the natural context here. But Paul's saying, This is what we were to you while we were with you. This scripture really spoke to me. It's like, I have given you the capacity to be able to impart to others life the life that I've put in you, I've given the capacity through the work of the Holy Spirit, when it's you're not on the throne of your life but the Christ is on the throne in your life. When you're really living for legacy you're not living for success. I want to finish this text and then make a couple of notes. says Go on. Continue on. It says for you remember brother and Our Lady Different toil and labor in night and day and we might not that we might not be a burden to any of you we preached. We preach to you the gospel of God continually says, You are witnesses, and God also, how devoutly, devoutly, and justly and blamelessly we behaved ourselves among you, who believe, as you know how we exhorted you, comforted you, and charge you, every one of you, as a father does his own children, that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into his own kingdom and glory. So here Paul is describing not only how he and his team were able to impart the beautiful feminine side of God, the expression of who God is, which is both masculine and feminine, you know, but within the capacity of the Holy Spirit working in and through our lives as men, we can impart the same representation of who he is, is our heavenly Father, who has a very feminine expression that he wants us to walk in. We as men, sometimes just thinking of, well, we got to be macho. And we got to be tough. And there is a dimension of that that's true. What he's speaking here, he says, we also exhorted you like a father death. We exhorted you. You can do more than you're doing. Suck it up. Sometimes you got to be straight. We comforted you. It's not just the mothers or the feminine side to comfort our sons and daughters. A father has to comfort to and there's a time to comfort and there's a time to exhort. And then there's also that time he's saying to charge to challenge to call a pyre. This scripture became the foundation for our father son ministry that we did for 13 years. We started out with, I think it was three, three fathers and six sons or five fathers and eight sons. I can't it's a long time ago. The last year we did the Father Son ministry we had in Jim brought his sons and their sons, his grandsons from Kansas City. I think the last one we did we had 70 fathers and sons and fathers and daughters come together. Back Jim Van Winkle is in here. I just spend time with Jim sometimes down on where he is right now, is around here somewhere about there. In 1996. I had known Jim I'd preached at his church, we'd known each other and he asked me to come over and do a rite of passage for his son and his brothers, twin sons. And I had no idea that I'd never done a rite of passage when I said, Okay, you know, I'll try you know, and Mary happened to be driving on the interstate as we're going across to what eastern Iowa where they lived, from our home in Nebraska. And all of a sudden I heard the Spirit of God say to me, pursue the Word of God is the source of your life. This is before the phones in the PCs and all that all I had was a yellow pad. Remember, anybody remember legal? I don't know my briefcase right there. I heard the Lord say, pursue the Word of God is the source of your life. I said, what Lord? You said, pursue the Word of God is the source of your life. So I just pulled out the yellow pad and started writing it down. As soon as I got done, hurting say, choose the fear of the Lord is a foundation for godliness. wattle heart, choose the fear of the Lord is the foundation for godliness. wrote that down. Seek the wisdom of God for the sake of righteousness and justice. Seek the wisdom of God for the sake of righteousness and justice. wrote that down, you know, walk in integrity before the Lord the church in the world. walk in integrity before the Lord the church in the world. I wrote that down. Set there as Mary's drive and I said Anything else, Lord? Nothing. Lord, what am I supposed to do with this? Nothing. Nothing. I just put it back in my briefcase, got home from that retreat we did had a great time. And today he told me I did a good job. It's the first time I remember him saying that. But it's been years and memories fade, you know. But we made it through, you know, and started working with these guys are walking these guys. And by the third year into it, we're doing this in the Holy Spirit. I'm out there a day early at a retreat center. And all of a sudden, the Lord says to me, I'm stopping, and I'm just worshiping the Lord out on the road. And Lord says, It's time for these men to bring their sons in. Law, Lord, what are we supposed to do with him? He said to me, Oh, I'd taken that those papers when I got home, took him out of every case and made a file just said, pillars. I didn't know what else to put on it pillars. So anyway, we started that Father, Son ministry, taking 910 11 and 12 year old boys, and then girls, through a process of, of just each of those pillars, taking one pillar a year. And going through that. Then in April of every year, we do a retreat. The fathers would call the ones that had been through all four years, had been through all four pillars, we'd go on this retreat, we'd have a campfire, we'd do some teaching, reviewing, worship, all that stuff. And then some of the fathers would call their sons up and pray a father's blessing over then the community of men, we'd get around him. And as we went through that, then the ones that had already went through it, they said, Can we pray over him too. Beautiful to see all these young men sitting right here, someone's been through that. So grateful. That's totally out of my notes. I didn't have it in here at all. So I have no idea. But maybe, maybe there's some benefit. Hopefully. Thank you, Lord. I want to talk to you about three things. One of the things I want to point out and that scripture, Paul never says I in that scripture. There's eight times in there. He says, either we, our or us. Never says I. Brothers, we can't do this by ourselves. We need each other. We need to walk together in the battle no matter what no matter what the task is. We can't go it alone. We can't isolate ourselves. If we're living for legacy, rather than just for success, we will not allow ourselves to go it alone. All in God alone. Jesus did go it alone. So we've got to hear God in relationship to how do we build community? How do we walk in relationship? Those four pillars are good foundation, by the way. Go want to share three things with you that the Lord has shown me and I'm going to share a couple of stories and then I probably won't spend a lot more time. Here's a foundational truth, I believe, for raising spiritual fathers, spiritual mothers speaking and spiritual fathers tonight. foundational truth. spiritual fathers and mothers see their spiritual children through the eyes of their destiny rather than through the eyes of their failure. Rod mentioned tonight. spiritual fathers see their sons their spiritual sons through the eyes of their destiny, not through the eyes of their failure. I learned this from one of my spiritual fathers. He's home with the Lord has been for a number of years. But for about four years, I had the opportunity to walk with to this day. Probably the most Christ like man I've ever met in my life. I had the privilege of handling all of his international travel. He was an apostolic leader, Pastor, amazing man. And it was just a joy to be in His presence. And I watched him with people. I watched him with myself. He was diagnosed with cancer and we prayed for healing and we cried out for healing but the Lord chose to take him home. But right before he went home, I was in Florida. doing some business and trying to sell my my tent making job international air travel at that time. And he was there resting from treatment that he had had. And so he and I had breakfast together one morning and I asked him, I said, Bob, our journey together has been amazing for me. I've never been with someone that was so gentle and yet so firm and so solid. And he said, he's a big guy. He, he was the current reigning seniors tennis champ champ in Ohio at that time. So he's pretty athletic guy, you know? And he just said to me, he said, Oh, I haven't always been like that. He said, You know, God had to do a deep work on me. He said, I was a young pastor. And he said, I was pretty, pretty upset because the congregation wouldn't do what I asked him to do there any pastors here that have ever wondered if org got frustrated, because the congregation didn't do what they wanted them to do? Well, maybe one or two or anyway said I was frustrated, and he said, I was grumbling. I was I was really frustrated. And I was upset. And he said, The Holy Spirit broken on my conversation in my grumbling. And he said, Son, the problems not the people. What Lord, He said, Son, the problem is not the people the Lord, what what is the problem? And he said, Son, the problems you your heart. And then he said, there's a difference between you and me. And my brothers responded, he said, What do you mean, Lord? He said, Well, the problem is, is you always see your people through their failure. I always see him through their destiny. And I said, it just broke him. crushed him. I confess to you tonight. I see, Jim. I want that I want a double portion. What a double portion. I've worked with him for 40 years. You know, my heart. Love being with him. Guys, we got to want to be with those that we see that are walking with God. And we got to set everything aside that prevents us from doing that. We got to pay the price that it takes. And he had hands on me. And I didn't feel nothing. He was soon gone. But not mad. I was in 1984, the 19 Excuse me, 1994. Right before into 1994. We have to ask God to help us see people through the eyes of their failure. Not through the failure but through their destiny, his destiny for that. Because it's so easy for us to look great. He was talking about labels. We see people make mistakes, make bad decisions. My own daughter, our daughter, my precious wife and his daughter went through a divorce in 19. In 2002. What is it? Yeah, time flies, you know, and it gets away from me, doesn't it? Yeah. So she went through a divorce and it crushed us. It was so devastating because it come against everything that Mary and I represented in terms of our love for God and our love for family, our love for marriage of heart. And as I was crying out to the Lord, one day, actually, Glenn, Pastor Glen, wherever you are, he and I went out to lunch together. He knew I was a mess, grieving over that. Went back to the office and just sit down, crying out to God ended up on the floor. Lord spoke to him and he said I was crying out regarding the situation obviously and Lord said, what whatever you do, don't you reject your daughter. And then he said with a smile. I can see his smile. He said you We've made a lot of dumb decisions and I never rejected you. I said, Yes, sir. I got up and went to my daughter told her how brokenhearted I was and I do anything her mother and I do anything to help her, save the marriage. Things didn't change. But I told her, whatever it is, we'll never reject you. She's Deb wolf, the one that Grady talked about. She's been my right arm a couple of years ago, as I'm transitioning, you know, and thinking, well, someday I won't be doing all this stuff was greedy. And I told her, I said, you know, one day dad ain't going to be doing this, I may be done. And she looked at me and she said, Dad, when you're done, I'm done. She said, I've drempt a working alongside of you all my life. I've had the last 11 years with my daughter thinking like I think, you know, usually a step ahead of me. I mean, it's awesome. Anyway, that's one another one I read to you. I know I got to meet how're you doing? Are you doing okay? Okay. Fathers and mothers, spiritual fathers and mothers. For the for the sake of what we're doing here, I'm gonna drop off mothers. But you know, that implies that, okay? spiritual fathers call their spiritual children beyond where they can reach in their own strength. By calling them up higher into their faith journey. We read it again. spiritual fathers and mothers call their spiritual children beyond where they can reach in their own strengths, by calling them up higher in their faith journey. And I'm gonna tell a story on our brother, Chad lekking, who isn't here right now. He was here earlier today. And Chad is in Fremont. Now watching his youngest son wrestle. His last year in high school. He's a senior wrestling for Norfolk High School. And he just accepted an invitation to become part of the wrestling team at the University of Nebraska, following in the footsteps of two of his brothers. But he's over there now. But meanwhile, he was Chad was with his second born son. And his name was Caleb. And he took Caleb to his first wrestling match. When he was about seven or eight years old, and was telling somebody else's we were with Chad for breakfast or lunch or something today, and he took him to the first wrestling matches a few miles away from our town, and any last all five matches the seven or eight years old. He even says that he pinned himself in one match. Okay, so, so anyway, they're going home and chat of Caleb's thinking in his mind, I will never do this again. I'm done. It lost all five matches. But Chad, the man of God that he is. He's watching his son. And he's seeing his son in his destiny. And he looks over to him and he said, Son, someday you're going to be a champion. I see it in Yeah. This is Luke. This is true. Chad licking one of our guys. Son, someday you're going to be a champion. 2015 We took Jim and some of his sons, Chad and his and some other brothers. T. Another brother, two brothers. The twins were this, didn't they? And Joe, and we went to Kenya. We were invited to speak at a conference of 700 pastors. And every one of them had to speak before the 700 pastors, each Father and His Son had to make a presentation before the 700 pastors. Caleb got up before those 700 pastors and he said, told a little bit of his story. And then he said this. He said, My father saw something in me that I did not yet see. He said my father saw something in me that I did not yet see, gentlemen, we need to ask the Holy Spirit to help us see something in people that we don't yet see. And we need to play to that. We need to speak to that. As the Holy Spirit gives you that insight, we speak to that because that calls them up to a higher level of faith. If dad believes it there My spiritual father believes it, you know, and maybe I can believe it. If he's seen something, maybe I can see it too. Well, it's kind of interesting because that year, Caleb was a junior in high school when he went 47 and old, and won the Nebraska State Championship in class A division 47 Oh, the next year, he was wrestling and he shouldn't have been wrestling one day when he's fighting the flu. And he lost to another really good wrestler. And then he meant him in the finals of the state championship that year in beating and won the state championship for the second year. Because his father saw something in him that he did not yet see. How can we do that? With those that are coming behind us and they don't have to be chronologically younger than us. That's where God wants us to live, guys. Third one. spiritual fathers sow seeds, foundational truths that take root in the hearts of spiritual sons and daughters, which when watered or encouraged, sprang forth into life. We read it again, spiritual fathers sow seeds of foundational truth, that's a word of God. Seeds of foundational truth. You haven't got that book back there seeds of promise. Some of you may need to take a hold of some promises of God's Word and stop reading some of the stuff online. I didn't hear much of a reactionary. Again, oh, I can't believe that came out of my mouth. But there's probably true there. There is so much trash. So much defilement that we pollute, pollute our minds, brothers. That stuff. Get the book seeds a promise. Take a hold, get in the Word. Those seeds of truth, that spring forth when someone comes along and waters it. I had somebody come up to me tonight as we're walking to dinner. And I asked him how he's doing. And he said something like, I'm really encouraged. This has been a great day. He said, I've had two people come up to me while I've been here and told me how I managed it into their life 30 years ago, and how it changed their life. 30 years ago, this brother spoke seeds of truth did something that impacted somebody. And today 30 years later was the first time he heard it. We don't know what we're doing. We got to speak those words. And then water them and trust the Holy Spirit to water them. Because you may be the second one that comes along and waters it or the third or the fourth. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden you see this life coming up and suddenly, all of a sudden hope rises up within them. Those are foundational things and they're on that handout I'm gonna, I'm gonna just cover when when rod asked me to do this, I was really like, Lord, how do I do this? Because I think I understand my experience. But I don't want to be presumptuous that I actually know what a spirits what are the characteristics of a spiritual father, a spiritual mother. So I started doing a survey, I started asking people like T and the younger guys and I asked my 91 year old mentor, I still have a spiritual father in my life that we 92 in January. We were doing a book study with some of the tea's young men a while back and we had to go on Zoom because the COVID and we'd been on Zoom and we went through this book so Andrew Murray are one of them. I can't remember which one we went through. Who Calvary road the Calvary road. Yeah. By Wow. Roy hashing. Have you ever read the Calvary road? Well, that'll hit the things. old classic. I'm sharing classics with T and some of these young guys of the books that my mentors gave me 40 Some years ago. These are books that changed my life. So I'm figured I might as Do a share with them. So we're on this zoom call, we get all done. And I'm sitting there at my desk and this grateful and for the opportunity, and all of a sudden my phone rings, my cell phone rings. I look at it, and it's TD Hall, my spiritual father who's going on 92 in January. So a couple years ago, he was probably at nine years old. And he's got this deep bass voice. And he said, Hello, Derek, how are you doing? And I said, Well, I just got done with spending some time with some young guys here doing a book study. And he said, Well, I'm just sitting here going through my roller disk. I'm just setting they're gone. They don't know what a roller disk is. A roller disk is like your directory, in your phone, but it's on a piece of card, you know, like that, and it's got it, okay. And he said, I just, and he said, I just saw your picture. He's got my picture on his roller disc. And he said, I just thought I'd call you and find out how you're doing. At nine years old, calling me two years ago when I'm 78. So there's a difference between discipleship and mentoring, and all of those good things that we've all done or been a part of, and we've had men in our lives, but there's a significant difference between that which is very needed, and very valuable, and we got to have it. But a spiritual father walks with you through life. They're available. And that's what I'm gonna share with you just three or four of these. I took, I had 75 descriptive terms, come back from my survey 75 out of 16 people that responded to my survey, what are the characteristics of a spiritual father that you've experienced in your life, and I got 75 descriptive terms. And I'm thinking, wow, so I'm sitting there, and I'm going through this, I've condensed them down to 17, which is on that handout. But I'm just going to read a couple. And then we're going to ask the worship team to come back up, and we're going to spend some time before the Lord. I think the Holy Spirit is saying that he probably wants to do some tonight, and all of our lives. So I'm gonna read a couple of to you. One of them was pretty simple. It says, spiritual father makes themselves available, willing to invest time, energy and resources. And they have a listening ear. A spiritual father doesn't have to fix anybody. A Spiritual Father has fixed figured out that we do not have the power to fix anybody. And so when we walk in that freedom, we don't have to when we see things that are, are out of order or not in line in somebody's life, we don't, we don't have to get anxious about trying to fix it. We need to have a heart to listen so we can hear what the deeper issues are, that are creating the bondage in someone's life. So you got to take time, that's one. Another one is they are humble. Remember, this is what I got from other people. This is not what I wrote down. Okay. They are humble, vulnerable and transparent in regard to their personal journey, including learning experiences, through their failures. Hello. Are we willing? What was that? Okay, well, a spiritual father is humble, vulnerable, transparent, in regard to their personal journey, including learning experiences through their failures. Are we willing to share our failures? Where we've totally messed up and God's brought us to the fire? Are we willing to do it? Are we willing to be vulnerable? I love these. I was reading them all this afternoon praying them over. I was just going to highlight just gonna highlight three or four. I highlighted 15 Sorry, so that good. I mean, I mean, they were given to me and I'm thinking guys, these guys are pretty smart. They're pretty observatory, you know? Okay, so they speak the truth and love and bring correction. When and where needed with compassion and grace in a spirit of humility. They speak the truth in love, and bring correction. When and where needed with compassion, and grace and a spirit of humility. spiritual fathers have started to walk in the revelation of their own humanity, their own frailty. And so they're able to see when others fail and have a hard time. They don't look at him with a spirit of judgment anymore. There's no judgment in their heart. But instead, there's compassion. It's like, Well, I understand that I was there. I can tell you how many young men have come into my office over the last umpteen years and have confessed struggles that they're having. And one of the first things I usually say to him, and I probably have said that to some of these guys, that first of all, you need to sell know something, I appreciate you coming to me. But there's nothing you'll share with me that I probably haven't either thought of or done. So you're not getting any judgment for me. You'd be amazed how they give them freedom. To say, Man, I'm looking at the wrong thing. I said or done the wrong thing, you know, men, I'm saying this, the older guys now. We need to start seeing this younger generation that wears earrings, that does things that we didn't do. Now, I'm an old school guy. So many of you are a younger generation. But I grew up in a culture where that stuff was just horrible. My dad was like, it was horrible. So I grew up with that prejudice in my heart that I didn't even know I had. Until God brought a young man into my life, and told him to go tell him that I loved that God loved him and, and he told me to tell him you love him too. And I was like, what? But I said, Okay, Lord. And when I did, and this boy was just really he was so insole bondage. But I went over, and I just called him by name. And he looked at me and I said, The Lord told me to tell you something, and he said, what I said, The Lord told me to tell you that, that he loves you. He had earrings everywhere, and stuff, tongue, lip ears, you know, everywhere, and stuffing his hair. And, and I sit and, and I love you, too. I couldn't get the I loved you to out. You know, I don't know if he even heard that. When I said, Can I hug you? And he said, Yeah, like, yeah. And I put my arms around him. And I tell you, when I put my arms around that boy, every bit of prejudice in my heart went out. Without me, just got started helping me. Those things are in all of our hearts, guys. I don't think I'm the only one that's ever dealt with that issue. If you're going to be a spiritual father, and God is calling you to be one, then you're going to have to process some of that stuff. As part of the journey, it is so liberating. To talk about the lighting in the Lord. To me at age, this season of life. It's a delight to just see men come together and worship God with a whole heart. These young guys, guys from Indiana, went there 20 years ago and we started connecting I watched him grow up and get married and man them and they started having babies. I started having babies. Right Sean? It's awesome to see. Let me give you one or two more that will quit. Okay, you're doing okay. We're doing better than I thought. Okay. I mean, you pick one or two more, okay? Wow. This is a good one. spiritual fathers are always learning and growing, not allowing themselves to become spiritually stagnant. Their reading books, their devotional times worshiping. They're setting an example a model. So Marian, we get down to Texas, we get down, we're Pastor Tony is back there, and we're in the church down there. And we go see our spiritual father, my spiritual father, TD. So one of the last times last year, we went down there, and we went over that took him to lunch, went over to his house, and Mary and I are sitting in the living room and, and he went to his office, he comes back with a book. And he opens it up. And he reads his chapter in his book. He said, I got done reading it out loud to us. He said, What do you think of that? What do you think of that? So he was asking Mary and I to respond to and so we responded to him. And then he handed me the book. He said, you pick one. So I had to pick a chapter and read that out loud. And talk about it. It's almost 90 years old. I want If God lets me live to 90, I want to live like that. And that's what he's saying for you guys.